difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve

Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. I think so. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. Besides, you have a greaseisel. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. That is a good thing. . In short, NO! 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. I have just bought gauges. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. . -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. But R22 is almost equally damaging. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Any advice appreciated. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you. Yep, definately not a meat locker. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. If 50 degrees across the cond. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . How is 1234yf different from . 1) Warm Air From Vents. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Generally this works well for the whole system. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests Hence, let us continue to fix it. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. An extra half ounce? and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? What effect would it have on performance, if any? Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. But I don't want to waste your time. Very nice! 5) A/C System Failure. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! Helical and Serpentine coils. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? That switch should close @ 52c. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. . Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. Is there a graph? First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. That's a lot isn't it? Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. 2) Frost on the Vents. Big . R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. 5. Sense ells no existirem. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. = R134a Charge Level. Related products. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? . I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! Please enter a password for your user account. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. and feeds it through an expansion valve. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. hardly noticable. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Expansion Valve. The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. . Your old hoses of course will not fit. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. Only show this user. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. Stopleak is also risky. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. Any ideas from the info above? Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. What is a T/C?4. Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. This is the part that controls the system pressures. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. #13. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil.